Art of Rhyme - R.A. the Rugged Man Interview

What's up R.A.? Can you give us a brief synopsis of your upcoming movie Bad Biology? What is the plot?

R.A. the Rugged Man: [Laughs] The plot? A chick and a dude have really fucked up sexual issues and they end up meeting with catastrophic results. It's a fucked up love story. I don't want to give too much away but her body is really fucked up and has serious issues. The dude also has his issues. So yeah, that's a rough synopsis of the plot right there.

R.A. the Rugged Man: Frank and I wrote it together. I knew him from his earlier movies Basket Case and Brain Damage and I was a fan. When I signed to Jive Records I said we should find this guy and have him do my video. They tracked him down for me and he directed the "Blood Shed" video for Crustified Dibbs back in 1993. We stayed in touch ever since. We did a couple of underground things together under aliases and shit, so that's how I connected with him.

R.A. the Rugged Man: Yeah. You know I think we have a good little movie on our hands. A bunch of film festivals are jumping on the dick of it. It's gotten a lot of good responses a lot of people love it. We just screened it for John Waters, James Glickenhaus and Prince Paul. John Waters was saying, "Goddamn I wish we still had 42nd st. They don't make these types of movies anymore." James Glickenhaus had a cameo in it. He directed The Exterminator. You know the Vietnam veteran with the blow torch hand? He did a bunch of movies. He did the Protector with Jackie Chan, McBain with Christopher Walken and he's the man. He was also there and said he'd come see it again at the festivals. Prince Paul had a shit eating grin on his face the whole time and he was laughing at every joke. He was like, "I love the movie but I'm a sick fuck." [Laughs] So that screening yesterday went well.

We also screened it for the cast and crew and a couple of close friends - about one hundred and fifty people. There was no press at the time. Kool G Rap was there, Smooth Da Hustler and the Penthouse Pet Krista Ayne. It's getting a good reaction. It's in the Philadelphia Film Festival which is a big festival and they are honoring Henenlotter with an award. It's debuting at the Philadelphia Film Festival on April 4th. It's also going to be in the Amsterdam Film Festival in April as well. We had it in the Berlin Film Market but that wasn't for the press either, it was just for the buyers. We got some good offers on the table. There are a lot of people interested in the movie. As a producer and writer I'm happy.

That must be very encouraging. Is it important to you what the critics think of your films?

R.A. the Rugged Man: Well right now when we are in the sales process I care because you want them to say good things. People are feeble minded and they see one thing and say, "Oh is this really good"? So yeah right now with the good reviews I give a shit, you know? Once we make our money back on the movie and we've recouped - which looks like its going to be really easy for us. After we're making a little money I could give a fuck what anybody says. Honestly this movie isn't for everybody. This is like a sexual dark comedy with horror undertones, so the gore freaks that want severed limbs and severed heads and eye sockets being pulled out of faces, they are not going to get that. Honestly man it doesn't matter who you are. From a small movie like our movie, to name any goddamn director or artist in history, they all get shitted on. Somebody has something bad to say about everybody.

Let's talk about Bernard Hopkins. This guy proved himself a million times over and they are still talking shit about him. He's like one of the greatest boxers of our era and they'll still hate. Fuck off, I don't give a shit about what anybody else says. We live in a world where fucking Mariah Carey has more number one hits than the Beatles. She just broke the record for the most number one hits in history and that's the type world we live in. So I really don't care about pop culture. James Glickenhaus is the one that pointed it out to me yesterday. He said, "today is a black day in the music industry because Mariah Carey beat out the Beatles in record breaking number one hits". I'm like, "Ahh man stupid fucking whore bag from Long Island". I know like twenty cock sucking bitches just like her.

Now that you've been involved with the music and film industries, is one more difficult than the other? Would you like to make more movies in the future?

R.A. the Rugged Man: It's exactly the same if you go the Hollywood route or if you go the major label route, you don't get to do what you want to do artistically. Its like ok they are going to give me five to ten million to make a movie but I have to do what this guys says, what that guy says and you're not making the movie you want to make. It's the same thing with the major labels. You get a million dollar advance and they want this to be your single, they want to make sure you have that party record, that one up-tempo record. Three to five very well known pop artists, from a Kanye West beat to whatever famous bitch singer of the week is on your hook. It's the same shit with Hollywood.

That's why in the music game you say fuck it I'll put up my own money. I'll get distribution and they'll give me a nice chunk of money, we'll sell it and own a big percentage of the albums and make a lot of money that way. That's the same with the movie game. We put up our own money; myself and my executive producer Shane L Kessler who is my partner. Some of the rappers like Vinnie Paz, people involved with the movie, put up money. We put up our own money and made some shit nobody would give us money to make. When you see this you'll be like, "Who the fuck would finance this shit?" [Laughs] That's why we were able to make something so left field and with so much sexual content because we financed it ourselves. Then what happens is we sell it, license it and own it for the rest of our lives. Till we're dead we own this movie. The same thing with my records; my last album and my next album we'll own it till I'm dead. Not like the shit I was doing for Jive records and Priority records. Those are owned by the labels. You think three-hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money. Back in 92 that was a big deal but still three-hundred grand for them to own your shit for eternity? You sell thirty-thousand records and you made back three-hundred thousand dollars.

That's what's so great about this whole new world of just selling to the public and not being worried about the machine doing it for you and taking all your money and owning your whole career. Yeah I'm going to make more movies; I'm going to make more records. I'm doing it all. I'm still writing that goddamn boxing book I've been talking about for nine million years, but I got a book deal and its taking longer than it should. I partnered up with Doug Fisher from Max Boxing and we're writing a book together. I'm also working on a documentary film which is a full length feature about my family basically. More about myself and my father Staff Sgt. John A. Thorburn, the guy I wrote about in the Vietnam "Uncommon Valor" song. It's about him, myself and his kids. Just a lot of fucked up shit. A lot of fucked up fun shit. Frank and I are also like thirty five pages into our new script and we are planning on shooting that in the fall of 08. As long as we get the money on time. If not we might have to push it to March of 09. But we are planning to shoot in November.

R.A. the Rugged Man: Yeah but I don't want to leak it yet since it's not copywritten. I probably could leak it but I want to copywrite it first. It's going to have a lot of violence and sex in it.

R.A. the Rugged Man: This documentary I'm directing is going to be my directorial debut. It's a little easier because with a documentary I can pull the camera out and have my man shoot this and shoot that, take my time throughout the next two years and edit it. If I direct a feature film on my own you got the 35mm cameras, you got the crew, you got the lights, what lenses to use and that's a little more complicated. I'm going to start it off with something easy like my documentary. Maybe someday I'll get behind that monster 35mm camera and see what happens.

Your dad must be pretty proud of you. He's kind of becoming a celebrity in his own right.

R.A. the Rugged Man: My father actually has a cameo in Bad Biology and he's in the new script I'm writing too. He's a charismatic guy man. When you see the documentary you'll see he's so photogenic and funny. If I had some clout thirty years ago when I was a baby I would've thought he should be hanging out with Pacino and De Niro.[Laughs] It's the proudest my father has been of me ever. Its funny we get on the train together and there's a pretty girl on the train and he's like my publicist. My son did this and my son did that. He's been doing it for years though. In fact he still thinks that only black people listen to rap. Say we get pulled over and it's a black cop he's like, "You know who my son is? Listen to this! My son did songs with Biggie Smalls!"

The funny story is about my brother-in-law One Eyed Jay. The Feds came by and handcuffed my father. They surrounded the house trying to find One Eyed Jay because he was part of a motorcycle outlaw gang. When they uncuffed my father after raiding the house my father grabbed the black Fed and was like, "You like rap music? Come here, come here my son did songs with Biggie Smalls!" He started playing the Biggie cut called "Cunt Renaissance." [Laughs] He wasn't playing it for the white guy just the black guy. I'm like dad white guys listen to rap too now, trust me. [Laughs] He's always been a really proud father. He's proud of everything I do man. I'm proud to have him proud of me. My father and I have a closer relationship than most fathers and sons. We all do. My sister, we just have a really tight family. We had a lot of loss in our family and I think that keeps us together. My older sister Lisa, she worships my father and my father worships his kids. Its pretty tight over here, you know?

R.A. the Rugged Man: We already did the soundtrack. Jedi Mind Tricks did a song, I put Kool G Rap and Smooth Da Hustler on a joint together, Shabazz the Disciple and Hell Razah from Sunz of Man, Killah Priest and Reef the Lost Cauze did a song together with 60 Second Assassin. Killah Priest annihilated his verse on it. Atmosphere, which we're not really considered the same but Slug is a real good dude. I found out and we just did a song I co-produced with my producer Niles. Slug just did a song with the lead actress in the movie who is a singer. She sang this really sexy chorus. When I heard it I was playing it for Hip Hop heads. It's like an acoustic guitar type joint. It was for a scene where she's picking up this guy so it couldn't be no gangsta Hip Hop, it had to be some laid back stuff. When I played it I was wondering who I could put on it. A couple a people told me Slug would hit this shit.

So I threw it their way. It's a song about relationships and it's not the kind of record you would associate me with, but I think that's what makes it cool. Ras Kass has a song on there. The album is just full of really dope rappers. I might cheat a little bit and do a couple new songs that aren't in the movie. Do a couple of brand new songs just to throw on it. I was talking to Masta Ace and Sean Price about doing a song together and Buckwild was going to do the beat. I had handed in the movie for the Berlin market and I ran out of time, so I didn't get that song done and it won't be in the movie but I'm thinking maybe well make the song anyway and cheat. Look at American Gangster. Those songs on Jay-Z's albums aren't even in the movie. If I throw three or four extra banging Hip Hop tracks on there I think we can cheat a little bit.

In our last interview you made it clear that you don't think much of Floyd Mayweather. Has your opinion changed at all with his recent wins?

R.A. the Rugged Man: Here's the thing. Ricky Hatton he was a big underdog. I don't have faith in Floyd and Ricky at 140lbs is a monster. The reason why Floyd fought Ricky was because Floyd only fought at 147lbs one other time against Lou Collazo. Ricky almost got knocked out by Lou who's not a puncher because 147lbs doesn't fit Ricky. I have such little faith in Floyd; I thought maybe Hatton would swarm him. He did his thing and Floyd is a gifted fighter but I'm just not a fan of his. He's not as good as he thinks he is. He thinks he could hang with Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns in history. Even Sugar Ray Robinson's name he was using and Muhammad Ali's name. I'm like you're not even as good as Pernell Whitaker was so shut up! You're not even as good as a Sugar Ray Leonard was or Marvin Hagler was. More historically he's not even as good as a Bernard Hopkins. Historically what has he accomplished? Yeah he kept his undefeated record but a lot of cats don't take risks for rewards. I'm just not a big fan. I mean obviously you can tell.

As far as being an accomplished gifted fighter you got to give it to Floyd. He's an accomplished gifted fighter but one of the best ever? Not even close. He's talks about being 37-0 but man, Sugar Ray Robinson was like 100-1-1 at some point. He had one loss in one hundred and some fights. His only loss was a decision lost to Jake LaMotta who would've stopped Floyd Mayweather because Floyd's too little for that dude. Sugar Ray Robinson went up in weight and lost the decision but he also beat Jake LaMotta five times, a natural middleweight that was a monster. He would've had too much pressure for Floyd, but Sugar Ray Robinson was a monster and he's bragging about how great he is in 37 fights? Come on. Archie Moore had 130 knockouts. He has almost 100 more knockouts than you have fights Floyd, so when you talk about you're one of the best ever? It's like you're one of the best in maybe the last ten years. [Laughs]

R.A. the Rugged Man: Most boring of all time? No he's not the most boring of all time. That fight was terrible but what's fun about Klitscho is he gets his ass knocked out sometimes. So you go ok, he knocked out Danny Williams but is this guy going to kill him? You saw when a fat old Corey Sanders knocked him out and Lamon Brewster knocked him out with one punch. He's not the most boring ever but he's not all that good. The most boring of the last five years was that John Ruiz guy, right?

R.A. the Rugged Man: Yeah but the heavyweight's man. We shouldn't even talk about the heavyweights because the heavyweights are terrible. There's so many amazing welterweight, flyweight and middleweight fights. Boxing is actually incredible right now and everyone thinks the fight game sucks right now cause the heavyweights is the weight class that's supposed to mean something and it's the worse its ever been. Did you see the fight this Saturday? Marquez Vs Manny Pacquiao? That fight was action packed non-stop. One dude got dropped, the other dude got hurt, the one dude was bleeding then the other dude was bleeding. The other guy was winning then the other guy was winning. It was great boxing. A couple weeks before that they had Marquez Vs Vasquez III. It was a nonstop incredible fight. You just need to know which fights to watch, but with HBO trying to spoon feed you boring ass Klitscho it's like this is what people think boxing is.

That's another beef I have with Floyd. Floyd VS Oscar? This is the most watched fight of the year and he's going to run around like a pansy and not do shit. The fans that don't watch boxing are getting turned off, so people are like I'd rather watch the MMA's. Some of the people that aren't into boxing leave the Silva fight to watch Floyd and they see this little pansy run away the whole fight. So you go ok, maybe I'll watch my man Silva grapple with someone on the floor and watch some mixed martial arts. If some of these fans from UFC got to see some of these blood and guts boxing wars like a Marquez Vs Vasquez III they would be sold on it. The thing is when the mainstream fights are De la Hoya Vs Mayweather everyone thinks boxing is boring.

R.A. the Rugged Man: I keep my eyes on them. I love fighting and I love watching fights. I love watching violent shit. I love brutal violence with skill involved. I'm an old school boxing head so I like the skill involved. I think boxing is a little more advanced because cats start fighting when they are five years old or six years old. It's just more developed over one hundred something years. The mixed martial arts cats – that dude Silva, I watched that dude fight and he has fighting skills in a couple different areas. Some of these guys have a lot of talent. Before I wasn't convinced and I thought this was some bullshit tough man shit, where a couple of construction workers beat each other to the floor. That's what it felt like to me at first. I may not like it as much as boxing but I can watch it and be entertained and respect what they do. I watch Sumo Wrestling too.

R.A. the Rugged Man: Those Sumo Wrestlers are crazy! I like Sumo Wrestling better than UFC.

R.A. the Rugged Man: I swear! I love it. In fact they had Sumo Wrestling at the Garden a year ago. I got a crew of like fifteen people and we all went to watch Sumo Wrestling. It was disappointing because it was all white kids. It was like a bunch of fat Russians and there were like three Asian people so I felt cheated. I don't know if I'm racist but I felt cheated. When I watch Sumos they need to be these big fat Asian dudes. I'm watching these hairy Russians throw each other out the circle. I was like, "Yo! This is bootleg Sumo!" I like Sumo Wrestling.

[Laughs] That's crazy! I would always bug when I hear in Asia they are considered these huge sex symbols.

R.A. the Rugged Man: I heard that too! The women love them and they have groupies. [Laughs] Let me tell you something. Myself, Biggie Smalls and Biz Markie; we aren't so much better looking than those Sumo's and we get groupies and pussy everywhere, you know? We can name ugly rappers all day that fucked beautiful women right? So I can see chicks saying, "Oh shit! Yokiyamo, he's the idol of this country! Fuck I'll suck his cock." Yeah I could see it. [Laughs] If I can get pussy Sumo wrestlers can get it right? [Laughs]

What do you think of Kimbo Slice? He's not backyard brawling anymore and he's getting serious and taking to the pro level. Do you think he's the truth?

R.A. the Rugged Man: I don't think he will go far but I'm not sure. Right now even with the way they are matching him. The first guy he fought was Ray Mercer, a forty six year old has-been boxer who gets knocked out in boxing and who gets knocked out in mixed martial arts. Ok let's hand feed him this forty six year old guy that isn't really a fighter no more. Then the second guy they had him fight was Tank Abbot. A guy who's like this thirty year old over the hill mixed martial arts dude. Kimbo is young and he doesn't have the wear and tear, and young isn't always age in the fight game. It's your body's wear and tear, how many beatings you took or how many rounds you been in. In the legitimate fight game for fighting professionals he's as young as it gets. He has all his faculties, all his energy and he'll go in there and hop on you. I think if you put him at a higher level I'm not sure.

The one thing Kimbo has in his favor is the mixed martial arts world is a little newer. Well mixed martial arts isn't newer but the whole UFC thing. So if you step him up a little bit he will compete with the guys who have only been training for the last four, five or seven years. Whereas in boxing you're competing against guys who've had four hundred amateur fights and forty professional fights - so the UFC game doesn't have as much background history to the fighters. So for a guy like Kimbo Slice who has a street history and now he's training with professionals he has a chance at doing something. It all depends how good he is.

Since we are on the whole boxing and MMA topic. I don't know if it's real or if his myspace got hacked or what, but Mike Tyson is in the music business now? He's been looking for rappers, did you see that?

R.A. the Rugged Man: I think every boxer alive has a record label but never put out an album. Look at Floyd Mayweather's Cash Money Records that got more promotion than any Independent label you can name and they won't put out a record. So who knows. I think Floyd Mayweather is waiting for 50 Cent to put out his album or something. All these boxers got labels but one of them needs to put out a record one day.They got money. They can call me I'll teach them how to do it. One hundred grand I'll put one of your rappers on tour with me or something. [Laughs]

On your myspace a while ago you said you couldn't perform because the bouncers wouldn't let you in and there was a fight. How could they not let the performer in?

R.A. the Rugged Man: I forget. People were outside and I went outside to say what's up to somebody or something. There was this dude who had a video camera on stage that was taping everybody and there was this dude passed out on the floor and he was like, "I'm down with Rugged Man!! I'm Rugged Man's right hand!!" I had no idea who the guy was but I was video taping him. You know, for some behind the scenes or whatever and some clown ass bouncers where like, "you can't tape the show you, can't tape the show!" They didn't know I was the performer. So I was like "yeah, yeah yeah", then they told me I couldn't go back in. I was like ok that's cool get me the manager, get me my money and I don't have to go in.

I had my bag there so I went in to get my bag and somebody put there hands on me. I threw a couple kicks to his face but I didn't hit the dude. It was just a couple kicks just a few inches from his face like to let him know not to put his hands on me type of thing, you know? So I threw like two kicks at his face and didn't touch him. They ended up finding out I was the artist and ended up getting the real manager and said I kicked and bloodied two of their bouncers. I said I kicked next to their face. I didn't kick anybody in the face and I didn't bloody anybody. So I said you know what, you advertised me here and there's people in your club. When you reserve someone to be there you have to pay somebody to be there. I didn't do anything illegal so I'm going in the building and I'm being paid unless you want a problem. I got a lot of Rugged fans in there too, you know?" [Laughs] They wanted to just shut me up so they paid me. I then took my family out to dinner afterwards. They were like yeah you do good work.

Sounds like you have a lot of crazy nights on tour. I interviewed Reef the Lost Cauze not too long ago and he shared some crazy stories of you, him and C-Rayz Walz when you guys were on tour in Europe.

[Laughs] Could have been. I remember him mentioning something about C-Rayz in a karate stance.

R.A. the Rugged Man: I had to hit some kids with some stools. Five or six kids surrounded me; they didn't like that I kicked one from the stage or something. I did it for fun like "Yeah!" and kicked him in the chest. They came up to the merch table and said (German voice), "You should not have kicked my friend!" or something. I was on some political shit like yeah it's cool, no problem. I ended up hitting people with chairs because you know; if there's more than one I'm going to grab the chair. The bouncers came running in and I threw the chair over the bouncers head and hit the dude again with the chair. It was funny. [Laughs]

Obviously you interviewed him so you know Reef's a cool cat. He's a cool mellow dude. You never see him angry and he's just cool. His aggression comes out on stage he gets all rah rah and whatever but he's a cool ass mellow dude and a nice guy. That's the first night I seen him like, "Yo! Get the fuck away from the table!" He turned into a not so friendly dude. I was like ok good, you got that in you huh? He turned into a man-beast you know? [Laughs] Or maybe he was talking about another time with C-Rayz in Europe. C-Rayz had me laughing. I didn't have my Merchandise out yet. There was this German kid and I'm German so whatever, maybe the German kid related to me more or something. He bought C-Razy CD from him. I get to the table and he says, "I want my money back I want R.A.'s CD". We were like, NNah nobody's giving you you're money back. You buy both CDs". Dude was like, "Nah, nah, I want my money back". I was like get this kid away from me. C-Rayz grabs dude by the head and started head butting him. I had never seen a real head butt except on WWE. Usually you hit, punch, slap, kick or go to the floor, you know? But he grabbed him by the head and was like BAM! BAM! BAM! He was banging this dude's head. He thought he was talking German, he was like "Head-But-Ten". I was like yo Head-But-Ten isn't German yo. He was like making up his own German word for head butt or something. He head butted the fuck out of this kid. [Laughs]

Actually C-Rayz was getting on my nerves that tour because he's a loud, loud dude, you know? I was like, "Yo Rayz you got to get out my ear, I just want to chill. I want to relax on the ride to the next venue". The moment he started head butting that dude I was like, "C-Rayz you're a funny dude". He was back on my good side after that. It was so funny.

R.A. the Rugged Man: The thing is I write rhymes everyday and I'm always writing. It's the recording and finding the right beats process, plus I'm doing features and all that. I'm five songs into the new album. Everything is better than my last album so that's a good sign. I'm making two songs right now. I'm five songs in and that's the bottom line. Next month you'll call me and I'll say I'm five songs in. I say that every week. "I'm five songs in". I got to get to work and start knocking some of these joints out. I'm looking out my window and I got these lesbians. I live in Harlem and there's this white girl and this black girl and they're lesbians. Their window is right across the window from me. All I have to do is crack the curtain and I see black ass and white titties rolling around in the bedroom. It's crazy, only me. I open the window and get the video camera going and watch a couple of lesbians hopping around its funny.

Since you've got Prince Paul doing the score for the movie, why not work on an album together?

R.A. the Rugged Man: Our schedules always conflict. We always talk about it. Prince Paul and I always will talk about it in our interviews but the thing is - he's so and busy I'm so busy. I'm only five songs into my own album for me to start another album - it's like man, I want to finish this album first. I just have to lock myself in and do my album. Then its like you're working on your album and it's time to pay bills and people hit you up about shows, and you say, "Yup, throw me out on the road for a couple of months". You're writing rhymes but you're not working on your album. I just have to sit down and do this goddamn album. If it wasn't for this movie I definitely would've had a couple albums finished but that took up some time too.

R.A. the Rugged Man: Yeah, somebody just talked to me about doing something with Masta Ace, Wordsworth and Akrobatik I think it was? I'll write the rhyme to that this week. On my new album I'll have some Kool G. Rap songs, some Buckwild beats on it, Ayatollah beats and Sean P did some stuff already on it.

I was going to say you finally got to be on a song with Kool G. Rap but it was with Big John. Was that a case where the money was right?

R.A. the Rugged Man: I wasn't familiar with Big John as an artist but he's a nice guy. He hit me up and said, "I'm doing a song with Kool G. Rap, you should hop on the song with Kool G.Rap." So G. Rap and I hopped on the record and that was it. Yeah I got paid, but this is the era you get paid for your services. Back in the 80's and even the early 90's cats got together and did posse cuts together and you just kind of did them. Back then people had jobs and they didn't eat off this, it was what they loved. Now cats have to actually pay their bills off of this, so you know it is what it is. Big John is a nice guy and Kool G. Rap is Kool G. Rap, so we all put it together and did it.

R.A. the Rugged Man: I'm working on a couple of situations. The new solo album we are going to do it with Nature Sounds again. It was a good situation the first time and the movie soundtrack, I'll let you know more about that and what's going on. Also I'm putting together a "Best Of" thing for a long time. I'm figuring out if Nature Sounds wants to ship enough units to do it there.